Why Americans Get Mileage All Wrong

All that waste keeps hundreds of thousands of poorly educated folk working picking it up.
If we all got back to basics, with 300 million people in America, the unemployment rate would be 40%.

Here's your flipping "R" :)

I'm going to try to remember to link to this every time another moron here COMPLAINS about manufactures announcing hybrid trucks, luxury sedans, sports cars, etc... instead of an 80mpg sub-compact.

Too true

I dont know if you are familiar with Click and Clack car talk show on public radio.
They have a puzzler question weekly.

One I recall : Suppose you have 2 cars that you drive 10000 miles a year in, one a Prius the other a woodie Grand Cherokee. They ask something like what is better
to trade up from Pruis II (say 50 mpg) to a Pruis XXX( say 100 mpg) or to tune up your beater surf jalopy, scrub off the mud, inflate the tires tune the plugs and clean the air filter increasing the MPG from 15 to 20 mpg?

Of course the answer is the same as the article stated.
You save 100 gallons by upgrading to the super Prius but you save 170 gallons by tuning up the beater car.

Left unsaid is to mothball the Cherokee for surf trips only and buy a scooter, using the Pruis for rainy days!!!! Instead of 500 gallons of gas you would use 100 gallons.

Left unsaid is that for Many but not all of us, we really do not NEED the SUV Pickup. 99% of the time we are transporting only one person. I have a Prius and a Highlander and most of the time I do not use the cargo space of the Prius let alone the Highlander.

Tom

Awwww...Trainwreck...hit a nerve did I? Hit's home for ya?

Sorry to have hurt your feelings...but tough.

Noz,you hit it on the head and HURTS....the truth that is

Here is my experience with improving fuel economy.

I purchased a 2008 Prius in April. My other vehicle is a Kia SUV. My Prius is averaging 51+ MPG and my SUV is averaging 17 MPG (over 5 years of driving it). I have help logbooks on all of my cars for over 40 years so I do have valid data.

I created a spreadsheet to track my expenses on the Prius and to compare fuel expenses to the SUV.

Since April 28, 2008 to today, June 21,2008, I have spent about $250 on gas in the Prius ... and the SUV would have used about $750 for the same miles driven ... a savings of $500 in less than 2 months.

And, yes, those figures are right ... I am driving over 500 miles a week.

So, no matter what the Prius bashers want to say, or anyone else in these forums with their petty bickering, the Prius works and works very well.

Am I a consumer using too much resources? Probably. Am I doing something constructive about it. Yes. But consider this ... as I try to cut down on my consumption, I look at things besides just gasoline. I use compact flourescent lights, I don't water the street with my lawn sprinkler, ... I am trying to improve the quality of my life by doing the right thing ... AND saving money at the same time.

The point is with cars, it is not as important what your MPG has been ... the more important thing is ... WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO IMPROVE IT?

If you go from 10 MPG to 20 MPG ... that's great because you just cut your bill in half. If you go from 20 MPG to 40 MPG ... that's great too for the same reason. If everyone in Texas (I live in Texas), who commutes to work SOLO in a big truck or SUV, cut their gas use in half, just think what THAT would do to supply and demand and the price of gas.

What are you doing to help?

Hypothetical for you: Two drugs are being used to treat cancer, one has a cure rate of 50%, the other 10%. Both companies come out with a new, improved version of their drugs. The 50% cure rate has been pushed to 60% while the 10% drug has increased to 30%.

You have cancer - which drug do you want? If we followed the advice in this article, we'd all be opting for that 30% drug - after all, it's improved 300% from it's predecessor while the other has increased a mere 20%.

Arguing that 10mpg to 20mpg is 'better' than 34 mpg - 50 mpg is ridiculous. It may represent a greater percentage of improvement, but the end result is the same, you're still burning a lot more gas than you need to.

The simple solution is to buy only as much vehicle as you need, and get the most efficient one in it's class. If you have to have a truck, get the one that offers 20 mpg over the 10 mpg model. But if you don't need that truck, the 50 mpg Prius is certainly going to save you a lot in fuel and save the planet a lot of carbon in it's atmosphere.

Thank You Gap Spanner, you summed it up better than I ever could have.

Stats can prove anyone's point if presented the right way.

When I was in Law enforcement an argument was presented in front of a room full of prison inmates. They were asked how many were heroin addicts. Most raised their hands. Then those who raised their hands were asked if they used Marijuana before they used heroin, about 90% raised their hands. The presenter concluded that marijuana use led to heroin.

The person opposing this point of view then asked all the heroin users "How many of you drank milk as a child", all raised their hands. He concluded that drinking milk leads to heroin use.

****WARNING THE FOLLOWING MAY BE CONSIDERED HERECY TO SOME CLOSE MINDED, WELL MEANING, PEOPLE*****

Personally, I don't care what kind of gas mileage you get or anything about conserving gasoline. We're going to run out of gas .PERIOD. They only good things you'll accomplish by reducing oil consumption are:
- you may be lucky enough to die before we run out.
- you may be able to slow down global warming.
- you may save some of your own money today.
Now, if you have kids or grandkids that you care about or if you care about the prosperity of the human race, you'll see that we need a totally different approach.
The way to accomplish the above accomplishments and help your descendents is to use today's gasoline to raise human culture to a new level where it uses sustainable energy.
Today, the only sustainable transportation method that I see is the electric vehicle. It can run off of the sunshine, wind, geothermal, biofuel,etc that will be around essentially forever.

IF I PLAN TO DRIVE 50 MILES, AND I KNOW MY CAR GETS 25 MILES PER GALLON, I CAN ANTICIPATE THAT I WILL USE TWO GALLONS OF FUEL...who gives a [&#@%!] how many gallons you use to drive 100miles unless you are going to drive 100miles?

Thank you all. I have learned some things. I especially like hearing Old Bald Guy asking us "what are we doing to help?", steved28's comment on stat's - great story to prove a point! I also can understand where Noz and ex-EV1 driver are coming from as well... my guess is frustration from the apathy we all see from some people in this country. I get angry and pissed off too, but realize it's not always the best way to serve ourselves and promote change.
I now find myself (lib/dem) on some common ground with my conserv./repub. brother and realize many of us, on both sides, desire the same thing; moving towards sustainability, environmental protection, being aware of our choice's impacts, passing a better world and governing system on to our children; though I see it as moving through mud mostly - slow... very slow. Sad to know the dollar reigns with most.
I see more scooters than ever before and can't wait until people HAVE to start riding them just to afford their beer and ESPN15. When will NASCAR move to electric cars? Bet they'll be the last ones.
I try to remind myself pride usually holds me back from learning.

Awe button it up!

Figuring gas at $4 per gallon, and driving 12K per year...

Doubling your mpg from 10 mpg to 20 mpg (10 mpg gain) will reduce gasoline cost by $200 per month.

Doubling your mpg from 20 mpg to 40 mpg (20 mpg gain) will reduce gasoline cost by only $100 per month.

Lesson:
I'd defintely trade-out an Expedition for a pre-owned Accord, but I'd rethink spending 25K on a new Prius.

So, somehow the reciprocal of a number is better than the original number?

I don't get it.

Then again, I never understood how a millimeter was superior to a thousandth of an inch.

What I DO understand is that it would be better if EVERYONE used the same measurement systems. Then we wouldn't have conversion issues. But, the fact that we do or do not standardize has NOTHING to do with the actual system which we agree is standard.

Telling people how they have to think about a subject is flat wrong. That is the road to killing innovation and keeping people thinking "inside the box." Let people used to thinking in fuel consumption continue and let people used to using mpg continue. Both have their place.

I think some folks may be missing the point. From a public policy perspective, encouraging users of a 12MPG vehicle to move to a 24MPG similar vehicle will result in less overall fuel demand for the country than encouraging folks to move from a 50MPG vehicle to a 100MPG vehicle.

Of course it would be great if we could get everyone using the 100MPG vehicle. But that's not reasonable. Indeed, we should still work on having people move up the scale (or down the old scale) as fast as possible, but what's most important are getting the major gas guzzlers off the road.

In order to affect public policy in a working democracy you should have the buy-in of the general public. So if you're going to offer incentives to get pickup truck drivers to scrap their pickups and get new hybrid pickups, people need to see why that's a good idea.

The MPG form of measurement tends to obscure reduction in fuel use. Don't forget, most of us here would be considered some of the "smarter" people in society. Just because something is obvious to us doesn't mean that it's clear to everyone.

Professor Soll proved that above.

Steve28,
I welcome your statement that I "may be part of the problem in America" despite how much I disagree or how much it hurts me and you can be assured that I won't sleep well until I'm sure there's a good chance you're wrong. I've followed the increasing fuel economy route for a long time but finally came to the realization that it won't get us anywhere unless we come up with an alternative. Here's how it hit me:
I was on my way in our HCH to an alternative energy show where an organization I supported had a booth. I was running a bit late because of traffic. Suddenly, the traffic opened up and I sped up. As I sped up, my mpg suddenly started dropping. I was tempted to slow down a bit to save gas, however, I realized that then I'd be late to the event. I then had to make the tradeoff between saving gas and getting the word about electric vehicles and how they can save us out to the unknowing masses. I suddenly hit me that getting the word out to people so they would support EV's is really much more important that saving a gallon or two of gas. Many thoughts went through my head, including "look how much gas I'm wasting by even going to this event". Maybe I should save the gas and quit going to the events. I then tried to think of a cost/benefit formula to determine how much good my event had to be to justify the bad of wasting gas. It was when I realized that if I didn't go to the events that people may never hear my 1st hand accounts on how electric vehicle actually can work. I also realized that our gas would run out eventually, either in my life or the life of my nieces, nephews, grand-nieces, grand-nephews, etc. It was then that this heretical thought hit me that I'd be better off wasting gas now if I spent the saved time working on promoting alternatives (including writing this forum entry). I also realized that if I waste gas to be able to spend more time at work and make more money, I might be better able to afford an early Tesla, Phoenix, Apter, or other early electric car so I could then show people how great EVs are (since my last was taken from me and crushed).
I hope this helps you to understand my reasoning. I'll follow up with some additional explanations about my theories as well.

A lot of people forget that driving hybrids or other fuel efficient cars is not all about saving money. My wife and I would not have bought both a brand new HCH and Prius in the last 2 years if we were into saving boat loads of money. We are conscious of the environment and want to drive the cleanest driving cars we can.

People don't use reusable grocery bags or buy energy efficient light bulbs to save money, why should driving a fuel efficient vehicle or hybrid be any different? In fact being green can be a VERY expensive endeavor. My wife and I spend a ton more at the grocery store, for example, buying Earth-friendly products and organic produce.

I think too many people just think of hybrids or small cars as fuel savers and money savers without seeing the bigger picture.

I completely agree that hybrids have been and are still too expensive for a lot of people genuinely concerned about the environment to afford them. I do take issue, however, with those people that say that hybrids are too expensive meanwhile they are driving an equally expensive vehicle that gets 10-20MPG LESS than my Civic or my wife's Prius. If they were buying a 15K car I'd understand saying hybrids are too expensive. But a co-worker of mine just bought a new $28,000 car, and has stated in the past that hybrids are too expensive. The way I see it I spent about 5K less than her and I'm getting nearly double the MPGs and saving money on gas.

I do feel for those, I work with some, that would love to drive a hybrid but just simply can't afford it. I wish the car companies/government could do something about that. The tax credit was a step in the right direction but that is all but gone except for the gas guzzling Chevy "hybrids."

What the heck?

Thanks for the well thought out response EV1. I know we share common goals, I may be more pessimistic. When hybrids can only fetch 3% of the market share, It appears we have a long way to go.

With regard to running out of liquid fuel, I don't see it happening quite as fast as you may. I'm reminded of a story my uncle told me on my wedding day.

He said "In your first year of marriage, throw 2 pennies in a jar every time you make love to your wife, After the first year, take a penny out of the jar every time you make love, the jar will never empty"

If we can substantially reduce our consumption, liquid fuels will have a place in the world for many years. It will be less attractive due to the better alternatives and the high price.

BTW, unfortunately, my uncle was right.

It really all depends on your perception AND what information you are really looking for.

But in your illustration (the truck that improves it's gas usage for 100 miles from 10mpg to 5mpg versus changing from a car that uses 25mpg to another that uses 50mpg over 100miles) is still the same information. In reality both scenarios are improving their fuel usage by half the original usage. So if you are trying to accomplish reducing your fuel usage by 50% then you do that with either model.

However, if your goal is to get into a vehicle that can get you further for the least cost then the second model (cars) is your best bet. Let's put it together. Let's say fuel costs $4 per gallon. If you have a truck that uses 10mpg and you travel 100 miles then you have used $40 of fuel. If that truck has improved to 20mpg then the same trip has cost you $20. Now look at the cars: the first car has a consumption rate of 25mpg which means that your cost for the 100 mile trip is now $16 (better than either truck) and if you move into the more efficient car getting 50mpg then you have now only spent $8 for the same trip.

So depending on what information you are looking for decides which is the better decision. Either way you slice it, both models offer a 50% reduction of either gallons of gas used or cost to the consumer. But the cars when out in the long run because of reduced costs to the consumer.

NOZ, where are you from France? Do you carry around a white flag in your pocket?

Noz, As a Soldier I hear bad words everyday and bad things on the regular. Consumption is hardly a bad word. Your right Americans don't like to hear bad news but as an American and a Soldier I would rather hear the truth right out than tip toe around the problem. PS: I know I'm an a$$hole, what's your excuse?

According to a aftermarket parts blog. When it comes to issues like these sugarcoating is a common term used for them.

In other countries, counting in kilometers per liters would just make no sense. If you get 20Mpg that would convert in 0.12Km/L. In fact unless you get 1Mpg or 2Mpg, you get a decimal Km/l. On the other hand 12L/100KM (same thing just prettier to the eye) is easier to read & would be read 5g/100M in the States. Either way if you count in Mpg you want a bigger number, if you count it in GpM you want a smaller number in order to know you save on gas.
As long as you do a little research before changing your vehicle for one with more Mpg; checking if doing a little repair & maintenance on your current car will save you money or not is a little time that can save you a lot of $.
Who cares how it's calculated when you know what you're looking for?

Soooo .... I understand the issue for as many of us to upgrade to more fuel efficient vehicles. I actually support it.

BUT - I would like to ask all of you .... what do you expect a family of 4 with 1 income set well below poverty level and no public assistance to do? Are you willing to help them financially buy this new hybrid vehicle? Are you going to foot the bill for their new fuel efficiency?

I live very well and my family has a decent income. We do what we can to improve our effect on the environment and our fuel consumption. We do plan on upgrading to a better vehicle one day - HOWEVER we can not afford the cost associated right now with that upgrade. Does that make us evil self righteous earth killing fiends???? No it makes us limited by our own resources. Many of us do what we can - don't fault us all because we are still driving traditional fuel cars.

Hey, don't be predjudiced against an entire country because of it's majority. I'm American and am not nearly as stupid as most. Therefore, you are insulting to me. You should understand that concept.